Do Poor People Cause Their Own Poverty?

futureshock wrote:

Krystine, I like you a lot as a person, so keep that in mind as you read this post, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU PERSONALLY:

The sheer, unadulterated ignorance displayed in this thread by Krystine, is an example of what terrifies me about many teen parents. On one hand, Krystine is still a child in school, so she is not expected to know everything an adult knows about the real world, i.e. mental illness, homelessness, alcoholism, drug abuse, etc. So I am not shocked or appalled at what she has to say on these subjects given her age, etc.

On the other hand, she is about to become someone's mother, and in that light she should have at least as much knowledge as the average adult to to do that job adequately. Well she clearly doesn't have such knowledge, so that will be a detriment to her child from day one.


The bottom line is, I know many people get very defensive on the subject of teen parenthood, but you have to admit there are reasons why most of society thinks it is a bad idea.

DISCLAIMER FOR THE IGNORANT:

I did not say all teen parents are bads parents, and I did not say all adult parents are good. Get a fucking grip before you bitch about that.

Yeah. What she said.

I would add that while I don't expect someone this age to know, well, anything either, I would expect that they could use logic and reason. They teach that in school, right? I mean, for chrissakes, here is someone with facts laid in front of them and they hang on to their preconceived assumptions despite it all. Is that teenage arrogance? The whole "I know everything I am eighteen" psychosocial stage?

And look at how mean spirited these views are. Are they teaching that kind of judgementalism in school? A lack of compassion is the best way to go? WTF?

What is wrong with the human race. Here we are, with weapons in space pointed at ourselves. We point weapons at ourselves. What if some alien comes up to Earth and is like, huh, look at that sick planet. "Don't come any closer!" says Earth. "I'll do it!"

i didnt say i know everything..it was an opinion as to how i think some homeless live their life. That was my logic and reason...but its just my thought.

I don't know everything, but i try my hardest everyday.
And i am definately going to do that when my child is born, PLUS, George is older than me, and has a lot more information on certain things than i do, so not only will i educate my child, but George will be doing so too. And i think the out come on our child will be successful...im not sure if you were saying, because i dont have very much knowledge my child will be at risk...

I didnt think my responses were that blown out of the water, most people look at the whole picture of why someone is homeless...i listen as well dont get me wrong, i just think that homeless people out there have all the oppertunities staring them in the face, but dont accept them because they are too comfortable with where they are. Not saying they enjoy being homeless, but that they might enjoy the life where they have really no responsibility towards anyone else.

krystineM wrote:

i didnt say i know everything..it was an opinion as to how i think some homeless live their life. That was my logic and reason...but its just my thought.

I don't know everything, but i try my hardest everyday.
And i am definately going to do that when my child is born, PLUS, George is older than me, and has a lot more information on certain things than i do, so not only will i educate my child, but George will be doing so too. And i think the out come on our child will be successful...im not sure if you were saying, because i dont have very much knowledge my child will be at risk...

I didnt think my responses were that blown out of the water, most people look at the whole picture of why someone is homeless...i listen as well dont get me wrong, i just think that homeless people out there have all the oppertunities staring them in the face, but dont accept them because they are too comfortable with where they are. Not saying they enjoy being homeless, but that they might enjoy the life where they have really no responsibility towards anyone else.

Bloody hell.

Erulissë wrote:

Bloody hell.

Sometimes it is easier to just walk away that it is to argue with someone who doesn't have an open mind.

Who's arguing? Krystine doesn't have even a point to contend with.

True.

its an opinion!
i know i dont have all the facts, i have extablished that.
I am just saying that is how i FEEL SOME homeless run their lives, get over yourself.
Not everyone is going to conform to your way of thinking!

It is fine for everyone to have their own opinion, but not their own facts.

i never said i had my own facts...

When your opinions are based on untruths then your opinions are wrong.

If someone told me trees grow from lizards, and then my opinion was that lizards are great and holy because trees grow from them, my opinion would be wrong.

Erulissë wrote:

When your opinions are based on untruths then your opinions are wrong.

If someone told me trees grow from lizards, and then my opinion was that lizards are great and holy because trees grow from them, my opinion would be wrong.

So what you are saying bir.. I mean Erul is that no one is entitled to an opinion which is not based in facts that you accept?

You can use my name, Jincks; it's "Birch" on another forum; that's fine.

Opinions based on things that aren't true are wrong opinions. It has nothing to do with what I think.

I like that picture.

(Hi, Eiri!!! Gotcha fooled!!!)

Defination of opinion:

a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty; ex:"my opinion differs from yours"; "what are your thoughts on Haiti?"
public opinion: a belief or sentiment shared by most people; the voice of the people; ex:"he asked for a poll of public opinion"
a message expressing a belief about something; the expression of a belief that is held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof; ex:"his opinions appeared frequently on the editorial page"
the legal document stating the reasons for a judicial decision; ex:"opinions are usually written by a single judge"
the reason for a court's judgment (as opposed to the decision itself)
impression: a vague idea in which some confidence is placed; ex:"his impression of her was favorable"; "what are your feelings about the crisis?"; "it strengthened my belief in his sincerity"; "I had a feeling that she was lying"

So you see Erulissë an Opinion does not have to be based on any facts or proof of what someone is trying to say.

krystineM wrote:

Defination of opinion:

a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty; ex:"my opinion differs from yours"; "what are your thoughts on Haiti?"
public opinion: a belief or sentiment shared by most people; the voice of the people; ex:"he asked for a poll of public opinion"
a message expressing a belief about something; the expression of a belief that is held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof; ex:"his opinions appeared frequently on the editorial page"
the legal document stating the reasons for a judicial decision; ex:"opinions are usually written by a single judge"
the reason for a court's judgment (as opposed to the decision itself)
impression: a vague idea in which some confidence is placed; ex:"his impression of her was favorable"; "what are your feelings about the crisis?"; "it strengthened my belief in his sincerity"; "I had a feeling that she was lying"

So you see Erulissë an Opinion does not have to be based on any facts or proof of what someone is trying to say.

You justify basing your opinions on misinformation? On something other than facts of proof??

If your opinion is that the moon is made of cheese because a two year old told you so, then your opinion is wrong. How can you deny this logic?

that would not be an opinion that would be telling someone that that indeed IS the way something is, which then is wrong.
But what i said, was not a wrong opinion. It was an opinion and nothing more. You can't tell someone their opinion is wrong, because everyone has a different few on something.

krystineM wrote:

that would not be an opinion that would be telling someone that that indeed IS the way something is, which then is wrong.
But what i said, was not a wrong opinion. It was an opinion and nothing more. You can't tell someone their opinion is wrong, because everyone has a different few on something.

If my opinion was that the moon is made of cheese then my opinion is wrong.

If your opinion is that homeless people are lazy and could just get a job any second they wanted to, then your opinion is wrong. Because it is baseless.

Effin' A, dude, your opinion a little bit ago was this:

Quote :

you know what, there are alot of mentaly ill people who i see working just fine.
there was a guy at my old job who had downs syndrome, and he had a job, he worked there longer than i had.

Your opinion was wrong, because you had your facts wrong.

So yeah, your opinion can be wrong. Or if it makes you feel better, you could say, "incongruent with facts". *shrugs*

and i admitted that.
why would you bring up a statement in which i KNEW was wrong.

How i feel about homeless people is an opinion.
Deal with it.
Im not changing it. THat's how i view homeless people.
Lazy, picky, and want others to get them off their ass.
Lazy: because they have many opportinities to change their way of life, if they want to get off the street, they'll do whatever it takes.
picky: because even when you offer then some spare change or food, some complain about how much change you've given, or complain about what food or drink you've offered them [this DOES happen, do not tell me it doesn't]
and want others to get them off their ass: because they want others to help them out due to their "situation" They put themselves there, they can get theirselves out of it too.

Again this is MY opinion, its not a wrong opinion, its an opinion thats all. Live with it.
Im not conforming to someone else's way of thinking.

krystineM wrote:

and i admitted that.
why would you bring up a statement in which i KNEW was wrong.

How i feel about homeless people is an opinion.
Deal with it.
Im not changing it. THat's how i view homeless people.

The following (in bold) you are trying to use as facts to back up your opinion, this is where you are incorrect:

Lazy, picky, and want others to get them off their ass.
Lazy: because they have many opportinities to change their way of life, if they want to get off the street, they'll do whatever it takes.
picky: because even when you offer then some spare change or food, some complain about how much change you've given, or complain about what food or drink you've offered them [this DOES happen, do not tell me it doesn't]
and want others to get them off their ass: because they want others to help them out due to their "situation" They put themselves there, they can get theirselves out of it too.

"Im not conforming to someone else's way of thinking" ...even if it means you look the fool.

God help your kid, Krystine. You may be young and stupid but if you remain this stubborn only one of those are going to change.

leave my kid out of this please and thank you.

i have my own view on this topic, so lets leave it at that.
it does not mean im stubborn or anything or that my kid will benefit poorly because of that.

future i do believe your first question about this topic was how do poor people remain poor?
So i answered the question as to how i THINK they stay that way.
So why would it be so incorrect if its what im only thinking and voicing?
It may not be "solid evidence" but in some ways, it could be the case.
Hell there are people who go around PRETENDING to be homeless, because of how much some homeless earn while asking for money. Did you not hear about that one case, where a homeless women was charged for doing this?
She was very well off, but would still go around pretending to be homeless and i cant remember how much she got but i think it was pretty high. If she made that much, [again cant remember how much $$] why couldn't one of the reasons be out of laziness?

sigh sigh sigh

Some things never change, FS.

You're right.

I can't get over how stubborn many people, especially some adolescents, are. I have seen studies that show the conservative mind is hereditary, so it could possibly start early in people. The inability to incorporate new information and change an opinion is one hallmark of the conservative mind, and it mirrors stubbornness.

The part that troubles me most is the complete lack of accepting any new information, or something that might be contrary to what she thinks she may have heard from someone. Living in ignorance is entirely a choice. Not being open enough to listen and insist on being right all the time is hopefully part of her age.

I hope it is just her age and not the underpinnings/precursor of a typical conservative adult mind, which has the same problem.