Eiri, are you actually pro-life?

EiriForLife wrote:

Erulissë wrote:

EiriForLife wrote:

Erulissë wrote:

eiri, why won't you call the local clinic and get information from them?

Why won't you answer that question? it would be informative for you and straight from the source.

Because I have no desire to do that, and I'm incapable of doing it living with my parents as I am. I have heard from pro-choicers what these clinics provide, and I don't feel it is enough. They don't offer a video at all, and I feel they should.

The pamphlets also need to be revised because many of them provide false information, such as "abortion causes breast cancer" and other such nonsense.

you have no desire to do that? to actually get the information straight from the source butyou'd rather think youtube videos are reliable sources? you can't make a phonecall from your home? just tell your parents why you are doing it it doesn't have to be a big secret.

My parents would freak out if I was calling an abortion clinic. Sorry.

I'm sorry, too, because statements like these remind me that I am debating with a child.

futureshock wrote:

EiriForLife wrote:

Erulissë wrote:

EiriForLife wrote:

Erulissë wrote:

eiri, why won't you call the local clinic and get information from them?

Why won't you answer that question? it would be informative for you and straight from the source.

Because I have no desire to do that, and I'm incapable of doing it living with my parents as I am. I have heard from pro-choicers what these clinics provide, and I don't feel it is enough. They don't offer a video at all, and I feel they should.

The pamphlets also need to be revised because many of them provide false information, such as "abortion causes breast cancer" and other such nonsense.

you have no desire to do that? to actually get the information straight from the source butyou'd rather think youtube videos are reliable sources? you can't make a phonecall from your home? just tell your parents why you are doing it it doesn't have to be a big secret.

My parents would freak out if I was calling an abortion clinic. Sorry.

I'm sorry, too, because statements like these remind me that I am debating with a child.

I'm 23, going on 24. I live at home right now because I'm poor and just out of college. I am employed in a career, not just a job. I am not a child. However, my parents have minds of their own, and they're both very touchy on the abortion issue.

Apologize. I'm not taking crap from anyone anymore these days, that includes Galen's "rape victim friends" and that includes you. I left eHealth over shit like this and I don't have to take it. I am not blind, and I am not a child. This debate is over until then.

You are mentally still a child if you allow your parents to dictate who you can or cannot communicate with.

Maz wrote:

You are mentally still a child if you allow your parents to dictate who you can or cannot communicate with.

I don't allow them to, but their opinions matter to me. If I ignored them, I'd be a penniless college drop out, probably pregnant, and living in a hovel with a guy who now wants a sex change. Not that being pregnant or wanting a sex change are bad on their own, but it's NOT good when it's not your life plan at the moment, and the man is your FIANCEE. Thank GOD I listen to my parents!!

I am sure you don't do things to purposely piss off the people around you, especially not those whom you love. I am still healing the relationship with my parents that I ruined. I'm not going to jeopardize that just to call an abortion clinic and ask what pamphlets they give to women. Sorry. That's something really trivial to ruin my life over.

Quote :

[quote="EiriForLife"]I don't allow them to, but their opinions matter to me. If I ignored them, I'd be a penniless college drop out, probably pregnant, and living in a hovel with a guy who now wants a sex change. Not that being pregnant or wanting a sex change are bad on their own, but it's NOT good when it's not your life plan at the moment, and the man is your FIANCEE. Thank GOD I listen to my parents!!

A fascinating but unwanted and irrelevant snippet. Thanks

When you are 23, you should be thinking and acting for yourself. That's why we call 23-year-olds 'adults'.

Quote :

I am sure you don't do things to purposely piss off the people around you. I am still healing the relationship with my parents that I ruined. I'm not going to jeopardize that just to call an abortion clinic and ask what pamphlets they give to women. Sorry. That's something really trivial to ruin my life over.

Calling an abortion clinic to ask for information leaflets because you are actively involved in debating abortion isn't likely to "piss" anyone off. If anything, bearing in mind that you are anti-abortion, wouldn't any self respecting parent be pleased that such an adult and sensible route is being taken?

EiriForLife wrote:

My parents would freak out if I was calling an abortion clinic. Sorry.


Was it a video of an actual abortion, or just graphics detailing the process? Did you see an actual woman having an actual abortion? Did you see the actual blood and the actual tools?


A phone recording of what?


According to Guttmacher, many states are required to put the breast cancer lie in their pamphlets.

You can't call when they aren't at home or something? I think it wouldhelp you understand better whatyou have to do to getan abortion. it would make you smarter! and i saw that maz said already ifyou are prolife and involved in the debate your parents would be proud of you for doing the research. do your parents know you are into this?

it's really easy on debates to say things but its better when you have firsthand knowledge. and it's hard to hear that a girl who lives with her parents still would want to tell me what to do ith my pregnancy. it's like the teenagers and little kdis who protest at clinics. i know the little kids are there as tools of their parents, but what do teenagers understand about abortion or unwanted pregnancy? they live in a cushion.

the video was graphics of the procedure not anactual woman. but there was a video and it's more than you get if you get brain surgery. you can't complain about it not being an actual procedure; i wouldn't want to see an actual procedure of a pap test or a mole removed! lol i bet doctors don't show patients actual procedures of any procedure!!

the phone recording was something about the law, a recording the doctor made about something, I cannot exctly remember. hey, if you called you'd find out!

that's fine that they are required to put in the thing about breast cancer but they also put in information from the american cancer society with studies and all that about how it hasn't been proven. lots of drugs have to put that info in their ads, too.

Erulissë wrote:

it's really easy on debates to say things but its better when you have firsthand knowledge. and it's hard to hear that a girl who lives with her parents still would want to tell me what to do with my pregnancy. it's like the teenagers and little kdis who protest at clinics. i know the little kids are there as tools of their parents, but what do teenagers understand about abortion or unwanted pregnancy? they live in a cushion.

Exactly.

[quote="Maz"]

Quote :

EiriForLife wrote:

I don't allow them to, but their opinions matter to me. If I ignored them, I'd be a penniless college drop out, probably pregnant, and living in a hovel with a guy who now wants a sex change. Not that being pregnant or wanting a sex change are bad on their own, but it's NOT good when it's not your life plan at the moment, and the man is your FIANCEE. Thank GOD I listen to my parents!!

A fascinating but unwanted and irrelevant snippet. Thanks

When you are 23, you should be thinking and acting for yourself. That's why we call 23-year-olds 'adults'.

Shut. Up. Thanks. I wrestle severely mentally handicapped 4 year olds all fucking day, I do not need an IDIOT like you calling me a child. Thanks.

I apologize for my outburst, but our new student (whom I shall call Elvis) does not know the meaning of the word "no" quite yet, and I spent the day chasing him, pulling his hands away from things, and a WONDERFUL wrestling match during nap-time. He likes to kick and shriek when he's not getting his way, as he doesn't know how to talk at age 4. This was his first day of school ever. I thank God he's at least potty trained. He's testing us, seeing how many times we will say "no" for the same behavior; and then he will lay down and scream when he realizes that we won't take his shit. So I'm a little short right now.

You think I am a child? I'm sorry, but my principal would not trust me, the teacher in the room would not trust me, and the parents of these children would not trust their Exceptional Students with a CHILD.

I spend all day being gentle but firm, kind but consistent. I don't have to take anyone's shit online.

Maz wrote:

Calling an abortion clinic to ask for information leaflets because you are actively involved in debating abortion isn't likely to "piss" anyone off.

It would piss off my parents. I'm sorry you're a jackass.

I had something else to say and now I can't remember it...

Oh yes!

Despite the trouble I have with these students,

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM DESERVES LIFE.

I would NEVER advise a woman to kill one of these children in the womb. They have SO much to live for. "Elvis" may be a pill, but to see him grow will be a blessing. To see the smile on "Jeff's" face today made it all worth while. "Cathy" is adorable, I couldn't imagine her being torn to bits just because she wasn't perfect. And "Lee"! What a butterball of energy!!

They aren't the same as everyone else. But they are perfect anyway. Elvis has something to teach me, and that is patience. Cathy makes me laugh, and Jeff reminds me to be kind. Lee shows me the beauty of music.

EiriForLife wrote:

Maz wrote:

Calling an abortion clinic to ask for information leaflets because you are actively involved in debating abortion isn't likely to "piss" anyone off.

It would piss off my parents. I'm sorry you're a jackass.

I think you are referring to yourself aren't you = a 23 year old scared to use the telephone in case mummy and daddy get pissed off....

EiriForLife wrote:

I had something else to say and now I can't remember it...

Oh yes!

Despite the trouble I have with these students,

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM DESERVES LIFE.

I would NEVER advise a woman to kill one of these children in the womb. They have SO much to live for. "Elvis" may be a pill, but to see him grow will be a blessing. To see the smile on "Jeff's" face today made it all worth while. "Cathy" is adorable, I couldn't imagine her being torn to bits just because she wasn't perfect. And "Lee"! What a butterball of energy!!

They aren't the same as everyone else. But they are perfect anyway. Elvis has something to teach me, and that is patience. Cathy makes me laugh, and Jeff reminds me to be kind. Lee shows me the beauty of music.

You are preaching to someone who has a severely disabled (cerebral palsy) 32 year old brother. So please don't think you have it any where near as hard as the parents have it - something that I've seen every day of my life...so if someone else decides they can't do what my parents have done and are still doing (in their 60s), then yes by damn they do have the right to abort.

And as long as you seek to stigmatise and judge women who have abortions, and as long as you want laws changed to take abortion rights away from all women, then you will continue to take shit from those who seek to defend our hard-fought abortion laws.

EiriForLife wrote:

I had something else to say and now I can't remember it...

Oh yes!

Despite the trouble I have with these students,

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM DESERVES LIFE.

I would NEVER advise a woman to kill one of these children in the womb. They have SO much to live for. "Elvis" may be a pill, but to see him grow will be a blessing. To see the smile on "Jeff's" face today made it all worth while. "Cathy" is adorable, I couldn't imagine her being torn to bits just because she wasn't perfect. And "Lee"! What a butterball of energy!!

They aren't the same as everyone else. But they are perfect anyway. Elvis has something to teach me, and that is patience. Cathy makes me laugh, and Jeff reminds me to be kind. Lee shows me the beauty of music.

no one here would advise anyone to get an abortion that is what prochoice is.

EiriForLife wrote:

futureshock wrote:

EiriForLife wrote:

Erulissë wrote:

EiriForLife wrote:

Erulissë wrote:

eiri, why won't you call the local clinic and get information from them?

Why won't you answer that question? it would be informative for you and straight from the source.

Because I have no desire to do that, and I'm incapable of doing it living with my parents as I am. I have heard from pro-choicers what these clinics provide, and I don't feel it is enough. They don't offer a video at all, and I feel they should.

The pamphlets also need to be revised because many of them provide false information, such as "abortion causes breast cancer" and other such nonsense.

you have no desire to do that? to actually get the information straight from the source butyou'd rather think youtube videos are reliable sources? you can't make a phonecall from your home? just tell your parents why you are doing it it doesn't have to be a big secret.

My parents would freak out if I was calling an abortion clinic. Sorry.

I'm sorry, too, because statements like these remind me that I am debating with a child.

I'm 23, going on 24. I live at home right now because I'm poor and just out of college. I am employed in a career, not just a job. I am not a child. However, my parents have minds of their own, and they're both very touchy on the abortion issue.

Apologize. I'm not taking crap from anyone anymore these days, that includes Galen's "rape victim friends" and that includes you. I left eHealth over shit like this and I don't have to take it. I am not blind, and I am not a child. This debate is over until then.

ithought you saidyou got kicked off ehealth because you were mean topeople?

EiriForLife wrote:

Shut. Up. Thanks. I wrestle severely mentally handicapped 4 year olds all fucking day, I do not need an IDIOT like you calling me a child. Thanks.

I apologize for my outburst, but our new student (whom I shall call Elvis) does not know the meaning of the word "no" quite yet, and I spent the day chasing him, pulling his hands away from things, and a WONDERFUL wrestling match during nap-time. He likes to kick and shriek when he's not getting his way, as he doesn't know how to talk at age 4. This was his first day of school ever. I thank God he's at least potty trained. He's testing us, seeing how many times we will say "no" for the same behavior; and then he will lay down and scream when he realizes that we won't take his shit. So I'm a little short right now.

You think I am a child? I'm sorry, but my principal would not trust me, the teacher in the room would not trust me, and the parents of these children would not trust their Exceptional Students with a CHILD.

I spend all day being gentle but firm, kind but consistent. I don't have to take anyone's shit online.

ifyou don't want to take shit online then why not just ignore it? i posted information about abortion procedure and answered your questions butyou didn't say anything.

are you a teacher?

Erulissë wrote:

EiriForLife wrote:

I had something else to say and now I can't remember it...

Oh yes!

Despite the trouble I have with these students,

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM DESERVES LIFE.

I would NEVER advise a woman to kill one of these children in the womb. They have SO much to live for. "Elvis" may be a pill, but to see him grow will be a blessing. To see the smile on "Jeff's" face today made it all worth while. "Cathy" is adorable, I couldn't imagine her being torn to bits just because she wasn't perfect. And "Lee"! What a butterball of energy!!

They aren't the same as everyone else. But they are perfect anyway. Elvis has something to teach me, and that is patience. Cathy makes me laugh, and Jeff reminds me to be kind. Lee shows me the beauty of music.

no one here would advise anyone to get an abortion that is what prochoice is.

Maybe no one here, but I've been on other boards where they do. DOCTORS advise abortion! I've seen the shows "the doctor told me I should abort", we've all read stories.

You're trying to take the high road. Maybe YOU would never "advise" a woman to abort, but many people might perhaps say to her "well I would definitely consider it if I were in your place", "I WOULD have an abortion if it were me in your place", "well you're so young, how are you going to care for this child?", "Are you aware of how birth may harm your body?", "I don't think children should be having children", "Babies aren't dolls", "It's not a baby anyway", "Well mine didn't hurt very much and was so quick", "I don't regret my abortion(s)", "You have so much life ahead of you, there will always be another chance", "it's not a person," "the child wouldn't have a good life", "can you raise a child "like that"?".

So they might not right out SAY "you should have an abortion" or even "I think abortion is a good choice for you", but people suggest it in other ways whether they mean to or not. I'm not discussing the validity of any of the above statements, simply stating that they are things I have heard "objective" pro-choicers telling women who are considering their options. Yes, I have heard similar stories:

"Well, you need to decide for yourself. The zef isn't a person, can't feel pain and doesn't have any rights. You do: it's YOUR BODY, YOUR CHOICE! It's up to YOU to decide, we can't decide for you. I've had an abortion myself and don't regret it. I think you should consider all options, because you don't want to ruin your life. Don't let anyone influence your decision, your boyfriend has no right to control you. I can get you numbers to some abortion clinics in your area."

I've bolded everything where the poster is [un]consciously advising this woman to abort. On the note of the abortion clinic help this poster has offered, I've seen TONS of advice on how to find abortion clinics. I have NEVER once seen advice on how to find adoption agencies and clinics that help women give birth. I'm aware that Planned Parenthood does both, but it is (rarely) included ONLY as a source of abortion and then birth control afterwards - never as a birthing center.

Erulissë wrote:

EiriForLife wrote:

futureshock wrote:

EiriForLife wrote:

Erulissë wrote:

EiriForLife wrote:

Erulissë wrote:

eiri, why won't you call the local clinic and get information from them?

Why won't you answer that question? it would be informative for you and straight from the source.

Because I have no desire to do that, and I'm incapable of doing it living with my parents as I am. I have heard from pro-choicers what these clinics provide, and I don't feel it is enough. They don't offer a video at all, and I feel they should.

The pamphlets also need to be revised because many of them provide false information, such as "abortion causes breast cancer" and other such nonsense.

you have no desire to do that? to actually get the information straight from the source butyou'd rather think youtube videos are reliable sources? you can't make a phonecall from your home? just tell your parents why you are doing it it doesn't have to be a big secret.

My parents would freak out if I was calling an abortion clinic. Sorry.

I'm sorry, too, because statements like these remind me that I am debating with a child.

I'm 23, going on 24. I live at home right now because I'm poor and just out of college. I am employed in a career, not just a job. I am not a child. However, my parents have minds of their own, and they're both very touchy on the abortion issue.

Apologize. I'm not taking crap from anyone anymore these days, that includes Galen's "rape victim friends" and that includes you. I left eHealth over shit like this and I don't have to take it. I am not blind, and I am not a child. This debate is over until then.

ithought you saidyou got kicked off ehealth because you were mean topeople?

No, that's not what I said, actually. I fought back against people who were already "being mean" to me, but suddenly when I dish back the crap they fed me, it was grounds for banishment. I always get in trouble for standing up for myself while the shit heads get away with it.

EiriForLife wrote:

Erulissë wrote:

EiriForLife wrote:

I had something else to say and now I can't remember it...

Oh yes!

Despite the trouble I have with these students,

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM DESERVES LIFE.

I would NEVER advise a woman to kill one of these children in the womb. They have SO much to live for. "Elvis" may be a pill, but to see him grow will be a blessing. To see the smile on "Jeff's" face today made it all worth while. "Cathy" is adorable, I couldn't imagine her being torn to bits just because she wasn't perfect. And "Lee"! What a butterball of energy!!

They aren't the same as everyone else. But they are perfect anyway. Elvis has something to teach me, and that is patience. Cathy makes me laugh, and Jeff reminds me to be kind. Lee shows me the beauty of music.

no one here would advise anyone to get an abortion that is what prochoice is.

Maybe no one here, but I've been on other boards where they do. DOCTORS advise abortion! I've seen the shows "the doctor told me I should abort", we've all read stories.

You're trying to take the high road. Maybe YOU would never "advise" a woman to abort, but many people might perhaps say to her "well I would definitely consider it if I were in your place", "I WOULD have an abortion if it were me in your place", "well you're so young, how are you going to care for this child?", "Are you aware of how birth may harm your body?", "I don't think children should be having children", "Babies aren't dolls", "It's not a baby anyway", "Well mine didn't hurt very much and was so quick", "I don't regret my abortion(s)", "You have so much life ahead of you, there will always be another chance", "it's not a person," "the child wouldn't have a good life", "can you raise a child "like that"?".

So they might not right out SAY "you should have an abortion" or even "I think abortion is a good choice for you", but people suggest it in other ways whether they mean to or not. I'm not discussing the validity of any of the above statements, simply stating that they are things I have heard "objective" pro-choicers telling women who are considering their options. Yes, I have heard similar stories:

"Well, you need to decide for yourself. The zef isn't a person, can't feel pain and doesn't have any rights. You do: it's YOUR BODY, YOUR CHOICE! It's up to YOU to decide, we can't decide for you. I've had an abortion myself and don't regret it. I think you should consider all options, because you don't want to ruin your life. Don't let anyone influence your decision, your boyfriend has no right to control you. I can get you numbers to some abortion clinics in your area."

I've bolded everything where the poster is [un]consciously advising this woman to abort. On the note of the abortion clinic help this poster has offered, I've seen TONS of advice on how to find abortion clinics. I have NEVER once seen advice on how to find adoption agencies and clinics that help women give birth. I'm aware that Planned Parenthood does both, but it is (rarely) included ONLY as a source of abortion and then birth control afterwards - never as a birthing center.

OMG FIRST of all, SO WHAT???? That's a far cry for wanting to pass a law FORCING woman to have abortions, isn't it? And that it the equivalent of what you want to do, pass a LAW FORCING women in these situations to give birth against their will.

Why not leave the law as it is and let people make their own choices???

And I've never, ever seen a person suggest abortion WITHOUT 50 people screaming NO! DON'T KILL A CHILD! YOU'RE A MURDERER!!!!!

Advising an abortion and forcing an abortion is two different things. A person still dies during abortion no matter whose choice it was.

Why not let women make their own choices? Because pregnancy is a result of sex. If you are having sex, you can become pregnant. Pregnancy and the existence of another human being is one HELL of a serious result, can we agree on that? God I hope we can... Pregnancy is extremely serious - you are carrying another human being inside of you. It's what your body evolved to do - whether you like that fact or not. I'm not going to bother making any comparisons, we know nothing compares to pregnancy. It's unique. Two humans living as one YET having two separate DNA make ups. One completely dependent on the other, YET it is through the donor's VOLUNTARY actions that this new person has come into existence. This existence may be an accident, but that puts no one at fault, not even the child. When no one is at fault, no one should be punished. Death is punishment, abortion punishes the child for being conceived. How stupid is that? The child had no choice; the sperm and the egg do their thing. The child can't even HAVE intentions at this point.

The ONLY viable reason I have ever heard that supports abortion (exception cases non withstanding) is "the woman has the right to control her body, and this includes the right to not be pregnant". There are flaws with this argument, the first being "what about the baby's body?" It is human. It has a body. Why does it not have a right to control that body? I know it does. It owns its own body from the moment of fertilization. The mother does not "own" it. It does not own her. It is at her mercy.

I would feel that as the pregnant woman, it is morally uprightious (lawfully correct, or ethically right, or whatever other non-religious phrasing you want) and even more than that, respectable and worthy of worship to carry that child, to protect it and shelter it. I caused it to exist, whether on purpose or not. It is the RIGHT thing to do to give birth if possible; to let my body do what it evolved to do. It is not my body's fault it did what it was supposed to do, and let this life take hold within it. I think it is against nature - not even God, but Nature itself - to remove the pregnancy against its will (again we're not discussing exceptions here). Science should help the human body to do what it does, not hinder this. Science certainly should NOT be purposely ending the life of a human under any normal circumstances.

Science should prolong human lives, not end them. You have to admit it is a human life, whether a person or not.

I admit I'm feeling very wishy-washy about abortion right now, because I can't decide how I feel about the early-term abortions. I'm dead-set against the second and third term ones (except for exceptions, bla bla bla are we over that yet?).

EiriForLife wrote:

Maybe no one here, but I've been on other boards where they do. DOCTORS advise abortion! I've seen the shows "the doctor told me I should abort", we've all read stories.

You're trying to take the high road. Maybe YOU would never "advise" a woman to abort, but many people might perhaps say to her "well I would definitely consider it if I were in your place", "I WOULD have an abortion if it were me in your place", "well you're so young, how are you going to care for this child?", "Are you aware of how birth may harm your body?", "I don't think children should be having children", "Babies aren't dolls", "It's not a baby anyway", "Well mine didn't hurt very much and was so quick", "I don't regret my abortion(s)", "You have so much life ahead of you, there will always be another chance", "it's not a person," "the child wouldn't have a good life", "can you raise a child "like that"?".

So they might not right out SAY "you should have an abortion" or even "I think abortion is a good choice for you", but people suggest it in other ways whether they mean to or not. I'm not discussing the validity of any of the above statements, simply stating that they are things I have heard "objective" pro-choicers telling women who are considering their options. Yes, I have heard similar stories:

"Well, you need to decide for yourself. The zef isn't a person, can't feel pain and doesn't have any rights. You do: it's YOUR BODY, YOUR CHOICE! It's up to YOU to decide, we can't decide for you. I've had an abortion myself and don't regret it. I think you should consider all options, because you don't want to ruin your life. Don't let anyone influence your decision, your boyfriend has no right to control you. I can get you numbers to some abortion clinics in your area."

I've bolded everything where the poster is [un]consciously advising this woman to abort. On the note of the abortion clinic help this poster has offered, I've seen TONS of advice on how to find abortion clinics. I have NEVER once seen advice on how to find adoption agencies and clinics that help women give birth. I'm aware that Planned Parenthood does both, but it is (rarely) included ONLY as a source of abortion and then birth control afterwards - never as a birthing center.

I'm not taking the high road. Reality road out of fantasy land where prochoicers support a woman's choice whatever that may be, and the facts about abortion. Take the issue up with doctors who advise abortion no matter what. I'll join you, because that is wrong.

The things you've bolded are true. The zef isn't a person afforded any legal rights, and six week abortions don't have pain involved, and who cares if there is anyways. Pain is everywhere. And, I have had an abortion and don't regret it. Having kids can ruin your life as you know it.

Never seen advice on adoption agencies or help for birth? Nothing on WIC, nothing on church assistance, nothing on pregnancy crisis centers that can help, nothing on helping a woman choose adoption, nothing about how 'having an abortion might not be the right choice for you'?

EiriForLife wrote:

Advising an abortion and forcing an abortion is two different things. A person still dies during abortion no matter whose choice it was.

I admit I'm feeling very wishy-washy about abortion right now, because I can't decide how I feel about the early-term abortions. I'm dead-set against the second and third term ones (except for exceptions, bla bla bla are we over that yet?).

What other reasons make you against abortion early term?

EiriForLife wrote:

Erulissë wrote:

EiriForLife wrote:

futureshock wrote:

EiriForLife wrote:

Erulissë wrote:

EiriForLife wrote:

Erulissë wrote:

eiri, why won't you call the local clinic and get information from them?

Why won't you answer that question? it would be informative for you and straight from the source.

Because I have no desire to do that, and I'm incapable of doing it living with my parents as I am. I have heard from pro-choicers what these clinics provide, and I don't feel it is enough. They don't offer a video at all, and I feel they should.

The pamphlets also need to be revised because many of them provide false information, such as "abortion causes breast cancer" and other such nonsense.

you have no desire to do that? to actually get the information straight from the source butyou'd rather think youtube videos are reliable sources? you can't make a phonecall from your home? just tell your parents why you are doing it it doesn't have to be a big secret.

My parents would freak out if I was calling an abortion clinic. Sorry.

I'm sorry, too, because statements like these remind me that I am debating with a child.

I'm 23, going on 24. I live at home right now because I'm poor and just out of college. I am employed in a career, not just a job. I am not a child. However, my parents have minds of their own, and they're both very touchy on the abortion issue.

Apologize. I'm not taking crap from anyone anymore these days, that includes Galen's "rape victim friends" and that includes you. I left eHealth over shit like this and I don't have to take it. I am not blind, and I am not a child. This debate is over until then.

ithought you saidyou got kicked off ehealth because you were mean topeople?

No, that's not what I said, actually. I fought back against people who were already "being mean" to me, but suddenly when I dish back the crap they fed me, it was grounds for banishment. I always get in trouble for standing up for myself while the shit heads get away with it.

EiriForLife wrote:

Oh for fuck's sake...

...I am tired of this charade and your pity party. Eiri, this is Birch, and we've been laughing at you for months now.

Erulissë wrote:

...I am tired of this charade and your pity party. Eiri, this is Birch, and we've been laughing at you for months now.

If this is too hilarious Future, I'll understand.

Yeah, I figured. You're a giant fucktard even if you change your name. And Future hasn't been laughing, just you, all alone. Future and I may disagree, but she's never purposely tried to upset me.

"this is Birch, and we've been laughing"

You and your split personalities I see. It's always good when you can laugh at yourself. Go shove a spiked dildo up your ass; maybe then when you talk shit it'll come out easier. You seem to have to try too hard right now; it seems forced. Must be the months of constipation caused by not being able to shit all over me on eHealth.

Hm, I must be a laxative then eh? "Eiri-lax: One easy overnight suppository dose to faster shit-talking. Warning: May induce brain haemmorhage, multiple-personality-disorder, and maniacal laughter. Also, Eiri-lax does not increase your intelligence, though all the shit flying from your mouth may make you think you are smarter. That's just the toxicity-induced mania caused by being unable to take back what you dish out. If you have a cup and a female friend, you may be able to become famous on the internet for 5 minutes. Otherwise, you will die painfully of sudden systemic failure."

I have a life; I don't need to know about yours, whether it's full you, yourself and laughter or not.

Erulissë wrote:

EiriForLife wrote:

Advising an abortion and forcing an abortion is two different things. A person still dies during abortion no matter whose choice it was.

I admit I'm feeling very wishy-washy about abortion right now, because I can't decide how I feel about the early-term abortions. I'm dead-set against the second and third term ones (except for exceptions, bla bla bla are we over that yet?).

What other reasons make you against abortion early term?

Eiri-lax! The overnight solution to asshole constipation!

Erulissë wrote:

EiriForLife wrote:

Maybe no one here, but I've been on other boards where they do. DOCTORS advise abortion! I've seen the shows "the doctor told me I should abort", we've all read stories.

You're trying to take the high road. Maybe YOU would never "advise" a woman to abort, but many people might perhaps say to her "well I would definitely consider it if I were in your place", "I WOULD have an abortion if it were me in your place", "well you're so young, how are you going to care for this child?", "Are you aware of how birth may harm your body?", "I don't think children should be having children", "Babies aren't dolls", "It's not a baby anyway", "Well mine didn't hurt very much and was so quick", "I don't regret my abortion(s)", "You have so much life ahead of you, there will always be another chance", "it's not a person," "the child wouldn't have a good life", "can you raise a child "like that"?".

So they might not right out SAY "you should have an abortion" or even "I think abortion is a good choice for you", but people suggest it in other ways whether they mean to or not. I'm not discussing the validity of any of the above statements, simply stating that they are things I have heard "objective" pro-choicers telling women who are considering their options. Yes, I have heard similar stories:

"Well, you need to decide for yourself. The zef isn't a person, can't feel pain and doesn't have any rights. You do: it's YOUR BODY, YOUR CHOICE! It's up to YOU to decide, we can't decide for you. I've had an abortion myself and don't regret it. I think you should consider all options, because you don't want to ruin your life. Don't let anyone influence your decision, your boyfriend has no right to control you. I can get you numbers to some abortion clinics in your area."

I've bolded everything where the poster is [un]consciously advising this woman to abort. On the note of the abortion clinic help this poster has offered, I've seen TONS of advice on how to find abortion clinics. I have NEVER once seen advice on how to find adoption agencies and clinics that help women give birth. I'm aware that Planned Parenthood does both, but it is (rarely) included ONLY as a source of abortion and then birth control afterwards - never as a birthing center.

I'm not taking the high road. Reality road out of fantasy land where prochoicers support a woman's choice whatever that may be, and the facts about abortion. Take the issue up with doctors who advise abortion no matter what. I'll join you, because that is wrong.

The things you've bolded are true. The zef isn't a person afforded any legal rights, and six week abortions don't have pain involved, and who cares if there is anyways. Pain is everywhere. And, I have had an abortion and don't regret it. Having kids can ruin your life as you know it.

Never seen advice on adoption agencies or help for birth? Nothing on WIC, nothing on church assistance, nothing on pregnancy crisis centers that can help, nothing on helping a woman choose adoption, nothing about how 'having an abortion might not be the right choice for you'?

Eiri-lax! The overnight solution to asshole constipation!