How Can Women Be Anti-choice (a.k.a. Pro-life)?

This boggles my mind. How can a woman want her government to take her control of her own body away from her?????

woman that are prolife consider the fetus a baby and not just a blob of cells and not part of the womans boby. we believe there are 2 bodys when a women is pregnant , the womans body and the body of the baby.

mommaof3 wrote:

woman that are prolife consider the fetus a baby and not just a blob of cells and not part of the womans boby. we believe there are 2 bodys when a women is pregnant , the womans body and the body of the baby.

That answers a different question, not the one asked. You can believe all of that and never have an abortion WITHOUT having the government take control over your own body away from you.

that doesnt sound like a government taking control over a woman's body, because an abortion is her decision, not one that the government says 'you have to get!'
if someone's prolife, i dont think they're going to walk into an abortion clinic.

mommaof3 wrote:

woman that are prolife consider the fetus a baby and not just a blob of cells and not part of the womans boby. we believe there are 2 bodys when a women is pregnant , the womans body and the body of the baby.

I'm prochoice and believe the same thing.

So why relinquish autonomy to people you've never met?

That's what I was trying to say, lol! Thanks for clarifying.

krystineM wrote:

that doesnt sound like a government taking control over a woman's body, because an abortion is her decision, not one that the government says 'you have to get!'
if someone's prolife, i dont think they're going to walk into an abortion clinic.

What doesn't sound like a government taking control over a woman's body? I think you are missing the point.

1. The question of the thread is this:
"How Can Women Be Anti-choice (a.k.a. Pro-life)?"

Now, in order to follow the rest of the thread you have to know the definition of "pro-life" as used in the context of this thread. What is that definition?
2.

Admin wrote:

This boggles my mind. How can a woman want her government to take her control of her own body away from her?????

What do you think this means, and how does it relate to the question in the thread title as seen in step 1.?

3.

mommaof3 wrote:

woman that are prolife consider the fetus a baby and not just a blob of cells and not part of the womans boby. we believe there are 2 bodys when a women is pregnant , the womans body and the body of the baby.

What does this answer have to do with any of the previous posts?

4.

futureshock wrote:

mommaof3 wrote:

woman that are prolife consider the fetus a baby and not just a blob of cells and not part of the womans boby. we believe there are 2 bodys when a women is pregnant , the womans body and the body of the baby.

That answers a different question, not the one asked. You can believe all of that and never have an abortion WITHOUT having the government take control over your own body away from you.

In other words, you do not have to be pro-life to have the opinion expressed in mommaof3's post.

5.

krystineM wrote:

that doesnt sound like a government taking control over a woman's body, because an abortion is her decision, not one that the government says 'you have to get!'
if someone's prolife, i dont think they're going to walk into an abortion clinic.

Do you see how "an abortion is her decision" and "being pro-life" are mutually exclusive concepts? In other words, they are opposing thoughts? Being pro-life means the OPPOSITE of "an abortion is her decision".

no i understand that, but what i was saying, was that if someone is prolife like mommaof3 said, why would they deliberately go to an abortion clinic?
if they are prochoice, they would want to keep the baby, no? so how would the governmetn take control of her body for making the decision to keep her baby?
but maybe im confused or misunderstanding...
what i found confusing was that if you are prolife, your wanting the baby, right, so how would it be that the government takes control of the womans body?

krystineM wrote:

no i understand that, but what i was saying, was that if someone is prolife like mommaof3 said, why would they deliberately go to an abortion clinic?
f they are prochoice, they would want to keep the baby, no? so how would the governmetn take control of her body for making the decision to keep her baby?but maybe im confused or misunderstanding...
what i found confusing was that if you are prolife, your wanting the baby, right, so how would it be that the government takes control of the womans body?

Prolifers want abortion outlawed, so in that scary world they advocate, the government takes control of a woman's body the instant she becomes pregnant. She cannot 'decide' anything - she is not deciding to have an abortion or deciding to remain pregnant. She HAS NO CHOICE but to remain pregnant. The state is making that decision for her.

Therefore, as Erulissë stated: "why relinquish autonomy to people you've never met?"

krystineM wrote:

no i understand that, but what i was saying, was that if someone is prolife like mommaof3 said, why would they deliberately go to an abortion clinic?

Who said anything about walking into an abortion clinic?

Quote :

if they are prochoice, they would want to keep the baby, no? so how would the governmetn take control of her body for making the decision to keep her baby?
but maybe im confused or misunderstanding...
what i found confusing was that if you are prolife, your wanting the baby, right, so how would it be that the government takes control of the womans body?

Krystine, what do you think "the government takes control of the womans body" means?
"

futureshock wrote:

mommaof3 wrote:

woman that are prolife consider the fetus a baby and not just a blob of cells and not part of the womans boby. we believe there are 2 bodys when a women is pregnant , the womans body and the body of the baby.

That answers a different question, not the one asked. You can believe all of that and never have an abortion WITHOUT having the government take control over your own body away from you.

krystineM wrote:

that doesnt sound like a government taking control over a woman's body,

WHAT doesnt'?

Quote :

because an abortion is her decision, not one that the government says 'you have to get!'
if someone's prolife, i dont think they're going to walk into an abortion clinic.

Where do you get the idea that anyone is walking into an abortion clinic?

Maz wrote:

krystineM wrote:

no i understand that, but what i was saying, was that if someone is prolife like mommaof3 said, why would they deliberately go to an abortion clinic?
f they are prochoice, they would want to keep the baby, no? so how would the governmetn take control of her body for making the decision to keep her baby?but maybe im confused or misunderstanding...
what i found confusing was that if you are prolife, your wanting the baby, right, so how would it be that the government takes control of the womans body?

Prolifers want abortion outlawed, so in that scary world they advocate, the government takes control of a woman's body the instant she becomes pregnant. She cannot 'decide' anything - she is not deciding to have an abortion or deciding to remain pregnant. She HAS NO CHOICE but to remain pregnant. The state is making that decision for her.

Therefore, as Erulissë stated: "why relinquish autonomy to people you've never met?"

thanks for making it a little more underatandable for me,
future i was confused about what this meant, and Maz helped me understand it more.
i misunderstood the question, and needed some clarification.
excuse me if i did something wrong...i feel like your.i dont know pissed or something about me not understanding what was said right off the bat.

I'm sorry about sounding pissed, I just wanted to know what you weren't understanding. I still don't know what you weren't getting, and I don't know what Maz cleared up.

For example:

krystineM wrote:

thanks for making it a little more underatandable for me,
future i was confused about what this meant,

What does this refer to?

Quote :

and Maz helped me understand it more.

What is it?

Quote :

i misunderstood the question, and needed some clarification.

What question?

dude, calm down lol i was confused about the prolife thing.
Maz helped me understand IT.
it was pretty clear what i was confused about with her more clear explaination, that made me understand it more.
you sound kind of like a cop what was this what was that what question...it was cleared up in Maz's response to me, just read what she replied back, and you'll see what i was needing a little clarification on...

But you never answer my questions, so how do I know you really understand the main question of the thread?

How can any woman want the government to to take control of their bodies away from them?

*sigh* ok i had a misunderstanding on prolife.
my thought, was that prolife meant that you would not have an abortion, i did not know that prolifers want abortion to be taken right out.
i understand the question. im not dumb. that was not what i was confused about.
When Maz explained that prolifers want abortion outlawed, so they dont have any choice in the matter, and have to remain pregnant, i was not confused about the meaning as i was before.
so, that was what i was confused about, that was what it was, that was my question that she helped me understand a little more.

Admin wrote:

This boggles my mind. How can a woman want her government to take her control of her own body away from her?????

Do you think a man should be against rape? How can a man want his government to take control of his own body away from him?

Maz wrote:

krystineM wrote:

no i understand that, but what i was saying, was that if someone is prolife like mommaof3 said, why would they deliberately go to an abortion clinic?
f they are prochoice, they would want to keep the baby, no? so how would the governmetn take control of her body for making the decision to keep her baby?but maybe im confused or misunderstanding...
what i found confusing was that if you are prolife, your wanting the baby, right, so how would it be that the government takes control of the womans body?

Prolifers want abortion outlawed, so in that scary world they advocate, the government takes control of a woman's body the instant she becomes pregnant. She cannot 'decide' anything - she is not deciding to have an abortion or deciding to remain pregnant. She HAS NO CHOICE but to remain pregnant. The state is making that decision for her.

Therefore, as Erulissë stated: "why relinquish autonomy to people you've never met?"

I totally missed this post the last time I was reading and responding to this thread.

THANK-YOU, MAZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!

krystineM wrote:

*sigh* ok i had a misunderstanding on prolife.
my thought, was that prolife meant that you would not have an abortion, i did not know that prolifers want abortion to be taken right out.
i understand the question. im not dumb. that was not what i was confused about.
When Maz explained that prolifers want abortion outlawed, so they dont have any choice in the matter, and have to remain pregnant, i was not confused about the meaning as i was before.
so, that was what i was confused about, that was what it was, that was my question that she helped me understand a little more.

OK! I had no idea that you didn't know pro-lifers wanted abortion to be made illegal.
I'm glad we finally got to the root of the problem, with Maz's help.

Krystine, now that you've gained some monumental insight, i.e. learning about those who want abortion to be made illegal, have some aspects of this debate become clearer for you? Has anything changed in the way you look at this topic? Just curious.

For example, if I were you and I was just learning about how far one side of the debate wanted to take things, it would make me realize why there is so much passion involved in this, especially from the side of pro-choicers. So, have you thought about this? Can you see why pro-choicers are so vehement in their positions?

NorthStar wrote:

Admin wrote:

This boggles my mind. How can a woman want her government to take her control of her own body away from her?????

Do you think a man should be against rape? How can a man want his government to take control of his own body away from him?

I honestly don't get it.

futureshock wrote:

NorthStar wrote:

Admin wrote:

This boggles my mind. How can a woman want her government to take her control of her own body away from her?????

Do you think a man should be against rape? How can a man want his government to take control of his own body away from him?

I honestly don't get it.

Rape laws remove from men the right to use their bodies in the way that they may see fit. Fundamentally, how is that any different from how some abortion laws might function? Both rape laws and abortion laws remove from people the right to partake of behaviors that society deems unacceptable. Both involve loss of some autonomy while gaining freedom for others.

NorthStar wrote:

futureshock wrote:

NorthStar wrote:

Admin wrote:

This boggles my mind. How can a woman want her government to take her control of her own body away from her?????

Do you think a man should be against rape? How can a man want his government to take control of his own body away from him?

I honestly don't get it.

Rape laws remove from men the right to use their bodies in the way that they may see fit. Fundamentally, how is that any different from how some abortion laws might function? Both rape laws and abortion laws remove from people the right to partake of behaviors that society deems unacceptable. Both involve loss of some autonomy while gaining freedom for others.

lol! So you are trying to equate a microscopic ball of cells to a born woman, right? A woman aborting an embryo is exactly the same thing as a man raping a woman, amirite?

Abortion laws allow a woman to have bodily autonomy, control over her physical being, which is something men also have. It has nothing to do with behavior, like using your body to do something overtly, like punching someone in the face.

Bodily integrity/autonomy involves ownership over your body. It is not involved with what you would do with your body, like drive a car, go swimming, rape someone, etc,.etc,

futureshock wrote:

NorthStar wrote:

Rape laws remove from men the right to use their bodies in the way that they may see fit. Fundamentally, how is that any different from how some abortion laws might function? Both rape laws and abortion laws remove from people the right to partake of behaviors that society deems unacceptable. Both involve loss of some autonomy while gaining freedom for others.

lol! So you are trying to equate a microscopic ball of cells to a born woman, right?

No, I am trying to show that your question is predicated on the assumption that an abortion is an innocuous event. Do you really doubt that pro-life women view abortion as a harmful procedure? If not, then why introduce the concept of abortion laws restricting autonomy?

Quote :

A woman aborting an embryo is exactly the same thing as a man raping a woman, amirite?

No, but it is also true that they, at least in the minds of many pro-life women, share some relevant characteristics.

Quote :

Abortion laws allow a woman to have bodily autonomy, control over her physical being, which is something men also have. It has nothing to do with behavior, like using your body to do something overtly, like punching someone in the face.

But getting an abortion is a behavior.

Quote :

Bodily integrity/autonomy involves ownership over your body. It is not involved with what you would do with your body, like drive a car, go swimming, rape someone, etc,.etc,

How so?

Pro-life women can think and feel anything they want. They also have the right to never have an abortion. Why do they also feel they have a right to force other women to do anything?

futureshock wrote:

krystineM wrote:

*sigh* ok i had a misunderstanding on prolife.
my thought, was that prolife meant that you would not have an abortion, i did not know that prolifers want abortion to be taken right out.
i understand the question. im not dumb. that was not what i was confused about.
When Maz explained that prolifers want abortion outlawed, so they dont have any choice in the matter, and have to remain pregnant, i was not confused about the meaning as i was before.
so, that was what i was confused about, that was what it was, that was my question that she helped me understand a little more.

OK! I had no idea that you didn't know pro-lifers wanted abortion to be made illegal.
I'm glad we finally got to the root of the problem, with Maz's help.

Krystine, now that you've gained some monumental insight, i.e. learning about those who want abortion to be made illegal, have some aspects of this debate become clearer for you? Has anything changed in the way you look at this topic? Just curious.

For example, if I were you and I was just learning about how far one side of the debate wanted to take things, it would make me realize why there is so much passion involved in this, especially from the side of pro-choicers. So, have you thought about this? Can you see why pro-choicers are so vehement in their positions?

yes i understand it more, i had a misunderstanding of what it was from before, but Maz cleared it up for me in her response.
my look on this topic is, all women have the choice to remain pregnant, or terminate their pregnancy.
their decision should not be made for them, because its there body, there decision.
a pregnancy might not be what they want, or it might not be the right time for a baby to come into the picture..there are many reasons why one would get an abortion. and it shouldnt be illegal.
im against abortions, but just because i am, doesnt mean that everyone is going to feel that way.

and for some women, they dont address the baby inside them as a "baby" they address the baby as an "it" or "fetus", "embryo"
so to them, its not a bad thing, or really like they're killing something, because it cannot function in its own, cannot breathe yet or do other things which we all can.
but others believe the fetus is a baby and a living being while in the uterus, which is why some think it is murder and wrong and should be illegal.