What do you view as irrisponsible sexual activity?

Say a woman gets pregnant. She was taking her pill regularly and correctly and her and her partner always used condoms. She decided to have an abortion because she knows she is not ready for a child and would not want to go through a pregnancy only to give the child away.

Your views?

I know you might have been looking for views from people that find that scenario controversial, but I obviously think that couple was being extremely responsible.

in the end its their decision, and if they feel that now is not the time for a child to come into the picture, i think they would be doing the right thing.
but either way, regardless of what others think, its their decision on whether to keep it or not.
and whatever decision they make, would be the right one, for them.

But were they being responsible or irresponsible? What do you, personally, consider to be irresponsible sexual activity?

Danielle wrote:

Say a woman gets pregnant. She was taking her pill regularly and correctly and her and her partner always used condoms. She decided to have an abortion because she knows she is not ready for a child and would not want to go through a pregnancy only to give the child away.

Your views?

Irresponsible. Say what you will, but they were using child killing as a method of (tertiary) birth control.

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She was taking her pill regularly and correctly and her and her partner always used condoms.

how could they be irresponsible?
they used both birth control, and condoms.
but still became pregnant.
i would think they were being responsible because,
1 they know their not ready
2 they may not be able to afford raising a child, children are very costly to raise,
3 she wants to have a child when she is ready for one, and not give it away because she cant raise the baby herself.

how would this be irresponsible?
instead of getting stuck in raising a child barely on enough money, shes stopping the pregnancy right away, the heart is not beating on its own, it cant breathe no orgams have been developed, shes killing what looks like the size of a pea or a thimbol.
instead of doing things half ass, she and her partner probably know that this is whats best, and they have their whole life to plan on having a child when their ready.

Ditto what Krystine said.

Here is an example of what I consider to be irresponsible:

Guys having sex or expecting sex with women with whom he's not in a committed relationship.

I also think it's irresponsible for an unmarried woman to purposefully go off her bc without telling her bf, in order to get pregnant to solidify the relationship.

Lol at that end not Future, only NO woman should do that, regardless of the relationships status (married or unmarried)

This entire post was aimed at a few comments made by Northstar and several comments she has made around here.

I am personally that individual, minus the pregnancy. I take my pill on time every time and we use condoms, again, every time. If I did become pregnant abortion would be an option but at least I would have been responsible enough to take the precautions to prevent that situation.

I would also know that I am not killing a baby. A baby is a born human who is capable of sustaining itself outside of the womb. I highly doubt the lump of cells that would be aborted could be counted as such. A heartbeat does not occur until 8 weeks, before which 50% of abortions have already taken place.

Danielle wrote:

I would also know that I am not killing a baby. A baby is a born human who is capable of sustaining itself outside of the womb. I highly doubt the lump of cells that would be aborted could be counted as such. A heartbeat does not occur until 8 weeks, before which 50% of abortions have already taken place.

I agree with all of your post.

To the pro-life nuts reading this:
Heart cells beat all by themselves. If you ever saw some floating in a test tube, you would see them beating all by themselves. If they bump into each other they form clumps and begin beating in unison. Unless that clump is considered a person, neither are embryonic beating cells in early pregnancy.

krystineM wrote:

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She was taking her pill regularly and correctly and her and her partner always used condoms.

how could they be irresponsible?

If she was engaging in sexual intercourse, she was partaking of a behavior that can inevitably lead to conception- regardless of whether contraception is used. If she plans ahead of time to have an abortion, she- assuming an unborn child is a living human being- is planning to snuff out the life of her own child.

Moreover, in most of these situations the man and woman are not married. By engaging in sexual intercourse she is helping to promulgate illicit sexual behavior which leads to more rapes, more incest, and more single-parent families.

In the case of a married couple, why would the woman not want to bear the child of her own husband?

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they used both birth control, and condoms.
but still became pregnant.

They did not use abstinence from sexual intercourse. They were also not using effective methods of contraception like Implanon, sterilization, or Mirena.

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i would think they were being responsible because,
1 they know their not ready

Are you assuming that the child is "ready" to be aborted?

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2 they may not be able to afford raising a child, children are very costly to raise,
3 she wants to have a child when she is ready for one, and not give it away because she cant raise the baby herself.

How can that not be irresponsible? Is a pregnancy really that big of an inconvenience? People make it sound like some form of alien torture or something rather than the way everyone came into the world.

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shes stopping the pregnancy right away, the heart is not beating on its own, it cant breathe no orgams have been developed, shes killing what looks like the size of a pea or a thimbol.

Why are you assuming such an early-term abortion? Under Roe v. Wade, all pre-viability abortions are perfectly legal. So if you are defending Roe v. Wade, you are defending her right to get an abortion as long as the child is not viable- which is at least through 22 weeks and possibly at any time throughout pregnancy. By that point, the heart has long since started beating, the organs have all formed, and the fetus looks like a baby.

futureshock wrote:

Ditto what Krystine said.

Here is an example of what I consider to be irresponsible:

Guys having sex or expecting sex with women with whom he's not in a committed relationship.

Why are you assuming that the woman (in the scenario described in the opening post) was in a committed relationship? Nothing in the description implied that she even knew the men with whom she was copulating. In the vast majority of cases, abortions are done on women who are not married to the man who impregnates her.

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I also think it's irresponsible for an unmarried woman to purposefully go off her bc without telling her bf, in order to get pregnant to solidify the relationship.

Why?

Danielle wrote:

A heartbeat does not occur until 8 weeks, before which 50% of abortions have already taken place.

Source?

futureshock wrote:

If you ever saw some floating in a test tube, you would see them beating all by themselves. ... Unless that clump is considered a person, neither are embryonic beating cells in early pregnancy.

Why not? My grandmother has been dead for years but I still consider her a person even though she does not even have a beating heart.

NorthStar wrote:

krystineM wrote:

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She was taking her pill regularly and correctly and her and her partner always used condoms.

how could they be irresponsible?

If she was engaging in sexual intercourse, she was partaking of a behavior that can inevitably lead to conception- regardless of whether contraception is used. If she plans ahead of time to have an abortion, she- assuming an unborn child is a living human being- is planning to snuff out the life of her own child.

Moreover, in most of these situations the man and woman are not married. By engaging in sexual intercourse she is helping to promulgate illicit sexual behavior which leads to more rapes, more incest, and more single-parent families.

In the case of a married couple, why would the woman not want to bear the child of her own husband?

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they used both birth control, and condoms.
but still became pregnant.

They did not use abstinence from sexual intercourse. They were also not using effective methods of contraception like Implanon, sterilization, or Mirena.

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i would think they were being responsible because,
1 they know their not ready

Are you assuming that the child is "ready" to be aborted?

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2 they may not be able to afford raising a child, children are very costly to raise,
3 she wants to have a child when she is ready for one, and not give it away because she cant raise the baby herself.

How can that not be irresponsible? Is a pregnancy really that big of an inconvenience? People make it sound like some form of alien torture or something rather than the way everyone came into the world.

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shes stopping the pregnancy right away, the heart is not beating on its own, it cant breathe no orgams have been developed, shes killing what looks like the size of a pea or a thimbol.

Why are you assuming such an early-term abortion? Under Roe v. Wade, all pre-viability abortions are perfectly legal. So if you are defending Roe v. Wade, you are defending her right to get an abortion as long as the child is not viable- which is at least through 22 weeks and possibly at any time throughout pregnancy. By that point, the heart has long since started beating, the organs have all formed, and the fetus looks like a baby.

she may be engaging in sexual intercourse, but they BOTH are responsible young adults who are using birth control and condoms, to PREVENT a pregnancy, birth control is reliable if taken everyday at the same time and you miss no days, theres a 1% chance that you could become pregnant while using it, and while using condoms WITH bc helps prevent a pregnancy even more.
But, if it failed she has most likely thought long term on whether or not she is able to provide for the child.

And let's just clear the matter up and make it clear that she was not raped. Not all abortions result in being raped.
She and her boyfriend, who i would assume are committed to each other decided to have sex, but engaged in SAFE SEX.
They were not just having sex unprotected for the hell of it.
If a man and woman who are married decided to abort a baby, its their choice. They may not be ready for a child meaning they cannot provide for the child, or they might not want children at all. In any situation its their choice, and who are you to judge?

They were using effective methods of birth control, condoms AND birth control pills. No one is going to abstain from sex, unless their committed catholics, or committed to whatever their religion or beliefs are.

Do you know how much an infant costs? It averages from $30,000 to $40,000 and more. They grow out of clothes like crazy, formula does not grow on trees nor does any other essential thing a baby needs. So unless your wanted to force them into having the baby, and struggle to make ends meet, they are being responsible thinking long term knowing, that they cannot afford a baby, and they are not READY at the moment to have one right now. Would you rather they live off welfare, raise their child off welfare and fall back on govornment checks instead of provide everything for their baby themselves?! Times have changed over the years. Back in the day, couples would have more than 1 or 2 kids, and they werent essentially born to do nothing and just be children playing with other children, they were put to work to help provide for the family, and most stopped going to school by the time they reached grade 3.
These days, thats different and children costs loads of money to be raised, their not like an animal that you feed clean up after give some attention to once ina while then let them be. They need constant care and much more, so if some make it seem like a big deal, its because it is a big deal. Your responsible for a living being.

I do not think it is right to get an abortion when your well into the second or third trimester, you've already gone half way through the pregnancy.
But from what the OP first wrote, it would sound like, if she found out she was pregnant, she would not wait till 22weeks or longer to get an abortion, she would get one right away. Why would she continue with the pregnancy only to end it later on in the pregnancy?
Essentially it is the womans choice to get an abortion, and if she decides to do so, she must be thinking responsibly, because its what she feels is right for her, her partner and a life that could have been. Their a young couple, and can PLAN to have a child when their READY.

And the question you asked Future about:

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Future: I also think it's irresponsible for an unmarried woman to purposefully go off her bc without telling her bf, in order to get pregnant to solidify the relationship.

You asked why this is wrong, or irrespinsible.
Its irresponsible and wrong, because only one person is deciding to have a baby. Two people are not talking it over, planning it or wanting it.
Only one is, the girl [in the example future gave] and the boy is oblivious to what is going on, because hes still thinking, shes taking her pill, so everythings ok. But then the girl suckers him in saying 'im pregnant!' thinking, that he will have to stay with her because a baby is coming into the picture now.
Would you think this is ok if a girl you were sleeping with who tells you shes on bc secretely goes off it to get pregnant and does not tell you, then a few weeks later says oh, im pregnant? [hypathetically speaking]
Would you want to be obligated into staying or want to have a child that way without having a say about it?

the heart starts beating at 8 weeks,
any baby book that follows the development will say that.

what you feel for your grandmother is different.
she was around for quite sometime, but completed the circle of life.
im sure any mother who has had a miscarriage would feel that way too,
they may still feel that their baby who did not survive still lives on.
and any abortion clinic will explain that the woman may feel a little upset or sad in result to their abortion.
but your grandmother is not present or visable on earth.
and the embryo is not able to function outside of the womb on its own.
it doesnt even look like a baby. quoted from m nephew, it looks like an alien!
the lungs are not formed, brain cells are not functioning, and the heart will stop beating when out of the womb because blood is pumping from the mother. and if it were out of the womb, it would not survive.

krystineM wrote:

If a man and woman who are married decided to abort a baby, its their choice. They may not be ready for a child meaning they cannot provide for the child, or they might not want children at all. In any situation its their choice, and who are you to judge?

What do you mean, who am I to judge? We are talking about people killing their children! How can that not be my business?

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They were using effective methods of birth control, condoms AND birth control pills.

The hard evidence says that they are not very effective.

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No one is going to abstain from sex, unless their committed catholics, or committed to whatever their religion or beliefs are.

How can you expect rapists to refrain from rape if you cannot expect other people to refrain from wrongful sexual behavior? At the very least, you can stop people from having sex by imprisoning them and putting them in solitary confinement.

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Do you know how much an infant costs? It averages from $30,000 to $40,000 and more.

Why should that be anyone's problem but the parents?

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Essentially it is the womans choice to get an abortion, and if she decides to do so, she must be thinking responsibly, because its what she feels is right for her, her partner and a life that could have been. Their a young couple, and can PLAN to have a child when their READY.

We are, for the most part, not talking about "young couples." We are talking about anonymous fornication, visits to prostitutes, rapes, incest, and adulterous encounters. And we are not talking about a "life that could have been" but a life that was.

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Would you think this is ok if a girl you were sleeping with who tells you shes on bc secretely goes off it to get pregnant and does not tell you, then a few weeks later says oh, im pregnant? [hypathetically speaking] Would you want to be obligated into staying or want to have a child that way without having a say about it?

Yes.

in the OP, it had nothing to do with rape, insest, prostitution etc.
it was about a couple who are im assuming commited to each other, and engaged in sexual intercourse.
there was no rape involved with that at all.

its not a child yet! its a bunch of cells! it cannot survive outside of the womb if it were born early.
it would die. therefore is not a child, just cells. a zygote. an embryo.
blood is not pumping by itself, the blood pumps from the mother into the umbellical cord, which helps the heart beat
but its not beating on its own. it cannot breathe yet, oxygen pumps through from the mother, it has no lungs.
its not a child yet at all.

its better than not using anything, and is accurate if taken correctly.
its not wrongful sexual behaviour, no one -like i said- is going to abstain from sex.
some do, but few do not. but if their using protection its practicing safe sex.
again we're talking about a couple who had sex and bc failed, NOT rape.

the cost of raising a child IS the parent's problem. And something a future parent may-and most likely will- think about before or while pregnant.
So if the cost seems or is too high for a couple to afford, or if they dont feel ready, why would you force them into a pregnancy that they cannot afford?
its clearly their problem, and something they have to think about, and since its a huge thing, they probably would look at the whole picture and decide not to go through with the pregnancy because of the cost, because their not ready and because its their choice.
if for example a 15 year old got pregnant, would you force her -if you had the power- to keep the child?
she has no source of an income, no home, no support from her partner or parents, and does not feel ready.
would you make her -again if you could- keep the baby?
it could in a way ruin her life because shes not ready has no support or money to pay for an infant, and shes not finished high school.
would you make her scrounge to get by?
AND she was not raped. -just to clear that up so you dont throw that in there.-
Because that's what your making it sound like with this couple who used protection and it failed, they arent ready, weren't raped, and decided for the best intrest of their future child, and their lives, that it would be better to stop the pregnancy now, so they can plan one down the road when they feel ready. You make it sound like the have to keep it regardless of anything else that could be going on. regardless of having no money WHICH YOU NEED to raise a child.

That's pretty sad that you think its ok for a woman in a relationship to secretely go of bc to get herself pregnant and not tell her partner at all.
A baby shouldnt be something forced into a relationship, it for the most part, should be something two people want and something two people create together, instead of having it done secretely.

NorthStar wrote:

krystineM wrote:

If a man and woman who are married decided to abort a baby, its their choice. They may not be ready for a child meaning they cannot provide for the child, or they might not want children at all. In any situation its their choice, and who are you to judge?

What do you mean, who am I to judge? We are talking about people killing their children! How can that not be my business?

When does the egg magically transform into a child?

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They were using effective methods of birth control, condoms AND birth control pills.

The hard evidence says that they are not very effective.

Really? You have hard evidence that shows using the birth control pill AND condoms is not very effective? I'd like to see that.

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No one is going to abstain from sex, unless their committed catholics, or committed to whatever their religion or beliefs are.

How can you expect rapists to refrain from rape if you cannot expect other people to refrain from wrongful sexual behavior? At the very least, you can stop people from having sex by imprisoning them and putting them in solitary confinement.

Seriously, why do you want consenting people to stop having sex?

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Do you know how much an infant costs? It averages from $30,000 to $40,000 and more.

Why should that be anyone's problem but the parents?

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Essentially it is the womans choice to get an abortion, and if she decides to do so, she must be thinking responsibly, because its what she feels is right for her, her partner and a life that could have been. Their a young couple, and can PLAN to have a child when their READY.

We are, for the most part, not talking about "young couples." We are talking about anonymous fornication, visits to prostitutes, rapes, incest, and adulterous encounters. And we are not talking about a "life that could have been" but a life that was.

YOU are talking about a life that was. Not "we". And it is VERY CLEAR that your problem is NOT with the abortion, but with the type of relationship the people having sex have.

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Would you think this is ok if a girl you were sleeping with who tells you shes on bc secretely goes off it to get pregnant and does not tell you, then a few weeks later says oh, im pregnant? [hypathetically speaking] Would you want to be obligated into staying or want to have a child that way without having a say about it?

Yes.

Why?

Krystine,

DITTO to your whole post.

Exactly. I don't see proof that contraceptives, when used correctly, are not effective. I can ouch that when using condoms and birth control (correctly) you don't get pregnant.

NorthStar wrote:

Irresponsible. Say what you will, but they were using child killing as a method of (tertiary) birth control.

This^ is what I think is irresponsible. Buying a computer, gaining access to the internet, joining a debate forum, and publishing this shining dingleberry of opinion before your cognition has developed.

rofl!!!